Curse

shifting shadows · Feb 06, 2011, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Spell. All foes within earshot have their attributes reduced by 3...8 for 6...10 seconds.
Energy 10
Cast 1/2
Recharge 45

Change it. The current spec is so pathetic it's unusable by anyone.

Xenomortis · Feb 06, 2011, 12:49 AM // 00:49

PvE:
Trivial mobs are trivial. Scary mobs are less scary for 10 seconds.

PvP:
For 10 seconds, with no drawback, all foes in earshot don't do damage, don't prot and don't heal.

*lemming* · Feb 06, 2011, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by shifting shadows

The current spec is so pathetic it's unusable by anyone.

It's like Team Arenas doesn't exist.

Oh wait.

yum · Feb 06, 2011, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

PvE:
Trivial mobs are trivial. Scary mobs are less scary for 10 seconds.

PvP:
For 10 seconds, with no drawback, all foes in earshot don't do damage, don't prot and don't heal.

For 10 seconds, you win Guild Wars.

ensoriki · Feb 06, 2011, 03:41 AM // 03:41

To be constructive.
You might as well be asking that Wail of Doom gets split for PvP and PvE.
Your suggestion is too powerful for PvP and probably PvE too.

If your asking for something overall for the entire skill, be more reasonable, earshot range is far too much the 45 second recharge is of little consequence.

shifting shadows · Feb 06, 2011, 05:11 AM // 05:11

That's just a starting point. I was hoping someone else in here with a creative mindset would tweak it a little and start a chain brainstorm. That's typically how good ideas get refined.

Change it from "all foes in earshot" to "target foe". I think in that situation it becomes a usable elite skill with the other changes I suggested. Or maybe keep it as "all foes in earshot" and simply change it so attributes decline by 2...4. I think either one of those would make it more balanced.

The Super Chilli · Feb 06, 2011, 06:15 AM // 06:15

How about...
10e, 2 sec cast, 10% hp, 25secs recharge
"Target foe has all attributes lowered by 2...8 for 5 seconds. All Adjacent/nearby foes have their attributes dropped by 1...4 for 5 seconds"

Shayne Hawke · Feb 06, 2011, 06:37 AM // 06:37

That's ridiculously OP from a PvP standpoint. Something needs hit here, either in the attribute loss (down to something meager like 0...3), AoE (a single target, perhaps with adjacent range), duration (0...4 seconds), or casting time (two to four seconds).

placetoguru · Feb 06, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

the pvp version is great how it is, under used yes, but its balanced (probly why its not abused)
imo wail of doom has some awesome capabilites in euro spikes for gvg/HA and in RA it works great on a curse bar because if your use it on a monk he can't heal for much at all for the time its on him, or if you are under loads of pressure you can put it onto an assassin as he uses his chain etc to reduce pressure. all in all its a balanced skill for PVP so any changes to it imo should require a split.

Coast · Feb 06, 2011, 10:50 AM // 10:50

remove the hp sac or reduce recharge to 10sec again

Xenomortis · Feb 06, 2011, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

remove the hp sac or reduce recharge to 10sec again

Only the latter would really do anything. I don't see anyone really caring about anything less than a 20% health sac (hell, even BiP at a 33% has seen use in PvP).
Putting the recharge to 10 might make it see in use in PvP I suppose, but it was only ever favoured in TA. I don't know how useful of a skill it is in GvG or if the current Necs would prefer it over their usual choices of elites.

I suppose an AoE in PvE might make me think about putting on a hero more, but then it's a ridiculous skill.

Coast · Feb 06, 2011, 12:14 PM // 12:14

its like a ranged blackout basically, weaker but less drawbacks to compensate

HigherMinion · Feb 06, 2011, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I still see it in RA. And it's still a damned nuisance!

Keep this skill tamed

MithranArkanere · Feb 06, 2011, 03:13 PM // 15:13

I wouldn't touch it in PvP.
It's fine as it is.

But in PvE it could have an extra conditional effects, like:
- Also affect adjacent foes if target is under 50% HP.
- Lasts 0...1...1 extra second for each condition and hex in target foe.

instanceskiller · Feb 06, 2011, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I think it would be best to split the skill for pve/pvp with your suggestion for similar reasons as others. I don't know about pvp but in pve it's quite a no brainer I think. You don't use it. If it was an aoe or had a longer duration it might have something, but as it is, it doesn't.

I think your suggestion would make it a viable option for pve and making it within earshot makes it fit in with the skill name, "wail". However, I can't help but think it might be a little too powerful? even for pve. It's practically like a party wide invulnerability skill for 6...10 seconds as earshot range will most likely affect all aggroed enemies, making them a joke for that duration. This makes it indirectly a Shadow Form for the whole party essentially. Worse, it could fill the role of the old aegis chain but would probably be stronger.

My suggestion would probably be to keep the earshot range to make it fit in with the skill name but also give it a death wail theme? Basically give it a huge health sacrifice like Holiday Blues, 50% or maybe even more. To further stop it from being abused you could have a soul reaping requirement like 10-12 soul reaping? I have one more suggestion to limit the power of your skill change idea but I'm not sure if it would kill it. My idea is to also add exhaustion. Personally I think it won't kill it as it would be the only nec skill to cause exhaustion and with it's long recharge, it will be gone by the time soul wail recharges. It would also fit the death wail theme as having such a strong death wail should be pretty exhausting. This might seem like a lot of restrictions but it's not really. It's not uncommon I don't think, to run 10 soul reaping especially for a skill that can shut down whole mobs. This leaves it with only two restrictions really, even then, they shouldn't be too bad. Even with the large health sacrifice it shouldn't be that risky as enemies will find it hard to kill you even with 50% of your health gone if their attributes are next to nothing. Exhaustion is also not too bad as it will be the only nec skill to naturally cause it and soul reaping will help counterbalance the loss.

As a slight buff, maybe have the skill cause bleeding, which would still fit in with the skill name as the death wail could cause enemy eardrums to bleed.

In summary-

Wail Of Doom:
Spell. All foes within earshot have their attributes reduced by 3...8 for 6...10 seconds and begin bleeding for 5...15 seconds. You are Exhausted. 50% failure chance unless Soul Reaping 10 or more.
Energy 10
Health sacrifice 50%
Cast 1/2
Recharge 45

ensoriki · Feb 07, 2011, 04:02 AM // 04:02

If I may then into this constructive refinement.

I'd offer a different route.
For PvE.
Target foe and foes adjacent target foe have their attributes reduced by 0...6. for 2...6 seconds. Target foe and foes nearby are weakened for 10 seconds
10% health sacrifice.
5 energy
15 recharge
The game is meant for a variety of people, and a 50% health sacrifice, with a 45s recharge and exhaustion just likely will not fit in with anyone, it looks nasty.

yum · Feb 07, 2011, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

remove the hp sac or reduce recharge to 10sec again

then make it 3/4 s cast.

Chairman Meow Meow · Feb 07, 2011, 06:00 AM // 06:00

no no no. Wail of Doom is brilliant as it is, you are just not using it properly. Pve does not need more powercreep.

Theory-crafting; suppose you have a necro with 600 health and you see an ele or a boss casting a spell which will hit hard. Lets say the spell will hit for 120 damage (meteor or whatever), but in pve this is probably much more. You cast Wail of Doom on this spell caster immediately, because hey, it is only 1/4 casting time. You will lose 60 health casting Wail of Doom and the spell will now only hit for 15 damage or so. A highly worthwhile elite when used properly. I am quite suprised I don't see wail of doom used more often to shutdown the elite bosses.

However, we all really take Wail of Doom to screw over monks, hehe. In RA, a lot of monk have will cast patient spirit and then word of healing.. and after the recharge four seconds they will do the same again. Four seconds of wail of doom is the perfect amount of shutdown to keep a monk from catching a spike. Without holyviel, the monk has no chance of doing anything really constructive in this time.

Chairman Meow Meow · Feb 07, 2011, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

its like a ranged blackout basically, weaker but less drawbacks to compensate

No, it is different.

Using RA as an example again, it is very predictable seeing a R/Me run up to the monk (to use a touch skill of course, guess which one). The smart rupters will know this and stop Blackout. Wail of Doom cannot be rupted at 1/4. What makes Wail of Doom actually very useful is that is it a spell, not a touch skill. There is no time to waste running up to the monk, just immediate shutdown whenever the spike comes.

The only skills the monk can effectively use while Wail of Doom are up are: Dolyak signet, shield bash & etc and also the hex and condition removal skills. These isn't a problem, wail of doom most importantly stops the monk from redbarring. I love it when monks waste energy trying to heal.

This is all without the drawback of shutting yourself down, you can still keep attacking. Wail of Doom is brilliant. xD

Horus Moonlight · Feb 07, 2011, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chairman Meow Meow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

its like a ranged blackout basically, weaker but less drawbacks to compensate

No, it is different.

Using RA as an example again, it is very predictable seeing a R/Me run up to the monk (to use a touch skill of course, guess which one). The smart rupters will know this and stop Blackout. Wail of Doom cannot be rupted at 1/4. What makes Wail of Doom actually very useful is that is it a spell, not a touch skill. There is no time to waste running up to the monk, just immediate shutdown whenever the spike comes.

The only skills the monk can effectively use while Wail of Doom are up are: Dolyak signet, shield bash & etc and also the hex and condition removal skills. These isn't a problem, wail of doom most importantly stops the monk from redbarring. I love it when monks waste energy trying to heal.

This is all without the drawback of shutting yourself down, you can still keep attacking. Wail of Doom is brilliant. xD

Bolded the operative word you seemed to miss.